Remembrance 2

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/pippa-bartolotti/white-poppies-make-histor_b_1092134.html

The above link is to an article written by someone I have got to know through face book. At the moment it has me seething with anger at her use of the word FASCIST and one or two things that she has said.
When I have calmed down I intend to answer her at length.

What are your thoughts people?

 

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8 Responses to “Remembrance 2”

  1. Rummuser Says:

    I am all for peace as long as the other guy wants it too. India has been the defender in all the wars that she has fought since independence, bar the Bangladesh war where, we were left with no choice with millions of Bangladeshi refugees crossing over to India. I have lost friends and have walking wounded friends from some of the wars and I have a special affection for our armed forces.

    I unfriended her a long time ago from FB. I just could not stomach her style of writing.

  2. Ursula Says:

    David , at its most basic “fascist” means “intolerant views or behaviour”. With emphasis on “intolerant”. Which is, and why you may object to the author’s choice of word, also associated with being right wing; the right wing by definition being always ‘right and never wrong’ and therefore won’t tolerate any deviation from ithe party line.

    The article is lucid in its reasoning, making more than one excellent point. There are circles in Britain, as the author says, who will frown on you if you do not sport that red poppy in your buttonhole every November.

    I don’t put that symbol of suffering on my lapel. Never have. Never will. I do not need to be prompted by what I call November’s “river of blood” (visually speaking). Sported by the very same people who condone troops to be ordered to fight wars on foreign soils, nothing to do with defending king, country or your family. In that Pippa Bartolotti is right too: War as a money spinner. It takes guts to say what she did. A truth may not always be welcomed but that doesn’t make it less true.

    And remember, Magpie: It’s white that is the colour of peace. White flag. White pigeon. Give me a white poppy any day. I’ll wear a whole chain of them. I might even move to Newport.

    U

  3. magpie11 Says:

    Fascist (adj) actually means: of or relating to Fascists or Fascism. You cannot (or should not) put any other meaning upon it. To automatically link anyone wearing a red poppy to Fascism is unforgivable.
    Pippa is a highly intelligent woman who knows perfectly well what she is doing. Like so many on the far left of politics she uses this word to gain “brownie points” with her chosen congregation of naive left-wingers, anarchists and people driven in their politics by envy.

    In the current world situation, changing as it is, there are many people in this country who support the the troops who are currently involved in Afghanistan. They support their families too. Contrary to what Pippa says these people make up their own minds. Of course many of the people she addresses would wish that they didn’t and that they would follow the propaganda of the left.

    There are many of Pippa’s comments and points made that I agree with and some that i don’t but so far I have only really concerned myself with her misuse and wholly inappropriate use of the word fascist.

  4. magpie11 Says:

    White is also a colour of cowardice…..

  5. shackman Says:

    Unforgivable it may be but todays discourse is full of attention grabbing sound bites – truth and accuracy be damned. This is clearly an example of that. and yes she clearly knew what she was doing. Trying to get readers to examine the piece.

  6. Looney Says:

    The article all looks to be in some unfamiliar code to me. Yes, there are white poppies and red poppies, but what about California Poppies? They are are beautiful orange/yellow and the state flower.

    Having read excerpts from a few fascist diatribes, such as Mussolini’s work, I have concluded that the meaning of the term in our modern age must be totally disassociated from the historical context. When was the last time you met a Brit or Yank who could think like a German, Italian or Spaniard of the 1930’s?

    If person A refers to person B as a fascist, the only thing I can currently conclude is that person A thinks that person B has an opinion on some subject of importance that deviates from that of person A. Since this is nearly always true, we are at the point of a tautology. To call someone a fascist is thus nearly the same as far as insults go as to declare that they exist. Horrors!

  7. blackwatertown Says:

    I agree that fascist is too strong a word for that writer to have used.
    However – she raises some good points too.

    Why shouldn’t people be permitted to display an alternative symbol of remembrance? White poppies are strongly discouraged, to say the least, at remembrance events. When tolerated, it tends to be the local council which permits them – usually on the margins of the ceremony not in the heart of it. They were banned when I was at a school that celebrated Remembrance Day. They are compulsory for BBC on screen staff – which makes a mockery of the idea of making a personal gesture. (Especially when they’re filming an edition of Songs of Praise months in advance.)

    White poppies are also a direct threat to the income stream of the Royal British Legion – something else to keep in mind.

    Also – in the past – and these days in Britain – poppies are presented as a patriotic symbol – and a sign that one supports British troops abroad. Fair enough to want to display one’s feelings on both those themes, but it shows that the poppy is not solely – or not at all – about highlighting the horror of war and working to avoid it in future.

    The oft-quoted poem In Flanders Field by John McCrae is a case in point. It urges us to wade in still further to the pool of blood to redeem the blood already shed – rather than work to avoid future bloodshed. More on that here – http://blackwatertown.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/deadly-verses/
    I’m more of a Dulce et Decorum Est type of bloke.

    But – I wear a poppy myself – for my own reasons – and despite my qualms. More on them here http://blackwatertown.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/bad-memories/
    I do it to take note of the sacrifices made.
    I also sell poppies in my neighbourhood – which, like Morris Dancing, is something I never thought I’d do. (I did the dancing because my daughter asked me to do it with her – she helps me sell the poppies to keep me company — and I do it because a friend asked me.)

    However, if you make me or anyone else wear red poppies – then that’s me out. It has to be voluntary or not at all. I fear the Legion risks getting too cosy with the waging of current wars, and risks the discrediting of a symbol currently riding such a prestigious high.

    OK. Rant over.
    And relaaaaax…

    • magpie11 Says:

      I never Morrised as it was too much like hard work. Long Sword was my bag. That and stepping and calling for dances.

      My objection is to the use of the word fascist.

      She has also taken the opportunity (IMO) to make her usual political rant and thus belittles both types of poppy…. I never knew, until last year, that there was ever a white poppy. I suspect that I’d have worn it as a youth but now I really do believe it belittles the sacrifices made.

      I have been amazed at how many young people support the troops past and present…..

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